Hi, everyone! Welcome to today's live chat. It's a little different than our usual style as we do not have a featured guest. Instead, today is an opportunity for you to seek advice from all of the cookiers on the chat. I may answer some of the questions that get posed from time to time, but the objective is to hear from all of you and to get the collective community's point of view, and not just mine. So please do not be shy; jump into the conversation at any time!

That being said, the chat is still being moderated by me today, meaning that what you post will not get posted automatically into the main chat viewing area. I will read it first and post it at an appropriate time. If it is just a comment or an answer to a previously asked question, I will try to post it as soon as I see it. But if it is another question for the group to answer, it will be posted in the order received and only after the previously asked question has been answered as fully as possible by the group on the chat.

I have a number of questions already in the queue, which I will start with first; then I'll move onto other questions that come in during the chat.

So don't be surprised if your question does not appear immediately, and please don't re-post it, unless we come to the end of the chat and we have not addressed it. I do see every question and comment that comes in, and I will get to each one eventually!

Ready, set . . . GO!

Let's start with a question from Sil Quiroga first, as it's a good ice-breaker!

From where are YOU? What country and region? Is there someone from Argentina on the chat? From what area?

VERY IMPORTANT: WHEN ANSWERING A QUESTION, PLEASE START IT WITH THE NAME OF THE PERSON WHO ASKED IT. This will help me identify which answers relate to which questions. THANK YOU!

Anyone?

Please tell us where you live!

I'd like to get as full participation from those on the chat as possible, on each question, so we can move this chat along quickly.

SIL QUIROGA HI Sil, Hi Julia, this is Manu, from Italy living in Dubai at the moment

Hi, Sil, I live in St. Louis, Missouri, USA, but am originally from Guilford, Connecticut on the east coast of the USA. I also have a summer home in Stonington, Maine in a lobstering village. So while I am land-locked when in Missouri, I still very much consider myself an east-coaster.

And here's another ice-breaker from Sil.

Hi, there! My name is Sil from Ricas Cookies in Argentina. First of all, thanks, Julia, for this chat in which we are able to ask questions to all of the Cookie Connection community. I hope to be able to connect at the time of the chat. It will be a pleasure to answer the questions I could help you with. In the meantime, I am posting some questions I would love to ask a cookier to see what is your experience regarding that. Thanks, Julia, for this great idea! 💖👏

How long have you been in the cookie business? Have you got any suggestions for people in this market?

Sil - I've been in the sweets business (including cakes, cookies, etc.) since 1996, but I became more focused on cookies with the publication of my first book in 2009. I'm not sure where you're headed with the second part of your question, but if I had a suggestion for someone in the decorated cookie business, it would be to diversify beyond just cookies if you truly want to grow your business. Decorated cookies are perhaps the most labor-intensive of sweets to make and they typically command lower per serving prices (than cakes or wedding cakes). Thus, it's hard to run a decorated cookie-only business and truly be profitable after accounting for all of the labor costs. This is why I think you see most "successful" cookiers diversifying into other income streams - such as sales of other sweets, sales of tools or other related products, classes and cookie parties, etc.

Anyone else? How long have you been doing cookies? What is you best tip for those getting into the business?

SIL: Hi Julia! Hi Manu and everyone! I am from Milan, Italy. I am in the cookie world since in 2012 but I don’t sell my cookies just teaching cookie decorating classes; so I don’t know if my experience can be helpful for you.

Evelin - I am sure your experience will be helpful.

There are some questions about classes coming up in the queue.

Hi, Raksmum! Thanks for answering.

If no on else is going to answer Sil's last question, I'll move on . . . but we want to hear from YOU!

Now onto another question from Sil, which was actually the first one she posted, but I am posting it out of order.

Same here, only a hobby

The first question is: do you make cookies for a living? Do you think we are able to live of this passion? With this, I am asking if you really make a living doing this, i.e., pay taxes, school, expenses, holidays, etc. What is the product that gives you the best profit? Is classes the only way round? I see many cookiers end that way...

JULIA: thank you for trusting in my experience. I am a self-taught decorator and very slow in typing English on pc.

You're doing great, Evelin!

Hi, Sil Quiroga! Yes, I try to make my living from cookies, but, without a second income from my husband, it would be tough to make ends meet. I do a variety of things to earn money in cookies - make YouTube videos, design and sell products, and teach in-person and online classes. The latter (classes) are the most lucrative for me, but the YouTube videos help to sell those classes. I also hope my product lines will become more lucrative over time. One is still under a year old, and the other has yet to launch, so they are really just getting started.

Evelin, so related to Sil's question, perhaps you can tell us why you don't sell cookies and only teach classes? How did you make this decision?

SIL: I live with cookies, yes! Teaching is the most beautiful part of this work , I think and it is very well remunerative. Julia can also tell you the same but it is different from a cookier to another. I don’t sell cookies because of Italian laws, it is to difficult and people are not ready to pay enough for such a huge amount of work.

Great idea, Val! I think if you're selling a lot, you have to find ways to simplify designs. That's partly why I came out with my stencil line . . .

. . . to give cookiers, especially those who are selling, more options for making detailed cookies more quickly.

Sil - I agree with Evelin that teaching is one of the most rewarding things I do. I specifically got out of daily selling (closed my bakery) 10 years ago, so I could focus more on creating and teaching, because I don't enjoy pumping out a lot of repetitive designs.

SIL: In my country it is very hard to get a home cookie license maybe in Argentina it is easier. I agree with you Julia, simplyfing design is the key to sell cookies in a right lucrative way.

Whoa, that's amazingly fast, Val!

Okay, Sil has a ton of questions in the queue, but I am going to jump onto one from Val since she is on the chat.

VAL: you are very quick! Amazing!

incredible

Val - I make sure I am piping very close to my work product, near my counter edge, and sometimes steady my piping arm on that counter edge. I ALWAYS use my non-piping hand to steady the tip of my cone when doing fine detail work. We all shake, so some way of steadying is key.

VAL: I do outlining with PME1 and stiff icing, I think it is a little bit slow but you have much more control on lines and difficult shapes.

Val: Yes, I agree with Evelin that, with a thicker icing, you have to pipe slower as the line can otherwise break. So by piping more slowly, you have more control.

Val: PME is a brand of tips and other decorating supplies

Val: A tip #1 is a very small round tip; tips are numbered but they aren't always the same size from brand to brand.

VAL: infact, as Julia has just written, we all shake because of squeezing the bag! PME1 is a tip, a nozzle.

Yes, Raksmum, that's exactly what I was trying to say. I use my pointer finger from my non-piping hand to steady my tip.

Okay, onto another question from Sil in the queue; she left us a lot of good ones!

rAKSMUM: Yes, I agree! It works very well also when painting!

Next question, how do you in your case calculate your prices? How do you calculate costs? What do you consider in costs? Are you really taking account of gas, electricity, rental, packaging? Are there costs you do not consider in your prices and why don't you consider them? What are the cons and pros of how you calculate them? How do you administer your expenses?

The above, I believe, is most relevant to those selling cookies, which may only be Val.

Val, what are your thoughts on this?

Hi, Sil. About your question of setting price, I no longer sell cookies, but when I did, I priced them as many of the blog posts on Cookie Connection explain - I computed all of the direct materials and labor costs associated with making them, and then marked up to cover all of the indirect costs that you mentioned (rent, utilities, packaging, etc.) and to allow for a profit after paying all direct and indirect costs. If you don't account for your time in the labor cost calculation or mark up to generate profit, you will never generate enough surplus money to reinvest in the business, which is required routinely to grow it.

I'm probably not going to make it today because a very special girl's birthday (my best friend's daughter has Down's Syndrome, and is one of the lights of my life), but I want to say that I so appreciate all the hard work that goes into keeping this site going. Julia, you are amazing. Your contributors are marvelous, giving women. I thank you all for continuing to make this site a joy for all of us in this cookie journey. I love seeing all the new blooming artists and am awed at the level that cookie making, as an art, has reached. I am humbly available if anyone ever needs a quick answer or help of some kind. Use the Open Chat feature on Cookie Connection more often! Thank you all for your encouragement, and wishing everyone a sweet journey.

Looks like Tina made it after all . . .

I'm glad I got to pop in for a few minutes. Hello to everyone from Greece. I won't have much time but had to say hello and Thanks to Julia ! You know I love this site like home!

Hi Tina! So happy to meet you here!

When and if I ever sell I have to firstly take into account the local market pricing. Which is awful and why I don't bother to sell.

I'm searching for the link to our blog posts about pricing. While I do, others, please share your pricing practices.

Okay, good to hear, Val!

Here's the link to the section of the blog with posts about how to price from a cost basis: http://cookieconnection.juliau...-business-of-cookies

The posts from Michelle Green and Cookiepreneur are the most relevant to pricing.

TINA: The same for me! Local prices of cookies are ridicolusly low here! Thank you Julia for this link!

Michelle's posts talk not only about pricing to cover your costs, but also overlaying market price considerations.

Onto another question from Sil!

More questions. Lots of us in groups internationally talk about prices and people not understanding the value cookies really have. Many times people complain because of customers saying that their cookies are too expensive - "I want them at half the price." Have you ever had this problem and how do you think you could perhaps resolve it? Simpler designs? Not using boxes or bags? Buying ingredients at a cheaper place though you might have to buy bigger quantities? Joining with other cookiers to buy ingredients? Reducing the quality of your products or work? Or do you just take a low price and work more to earn money? Or perhaps, you prefer working less for higher prices? How do you manage this issue, if you have it?

Val and 208Bakes, since you are selling, we are eager to hear from you. I'll relay some thoughts from my past experience in a sec.

In the meantime, I have a few comments to post.

Julia that is what theoretically should be done but is not always possible. People work for peanuts here because that I see better than nothing. ITS really sad.

Tina, I think here in the US there is great opportunity to price up. Unfortunately, I think too few decorators really take the time to understand their costs and thus take the shortcut of following the market, often underpricing when they do. I believe here there is a niche for high-end pricing, and it is quite possible to be successful doing so.

Sil, I stepped back from selling, make some gifts, and teach if I get the opportunity. I'd rather not sell then sell less than quality in both workmanship and ingredients.

Sil - Regarding your question about people complaining about the cost of my products. I only encountered it occasionally when I had my bakery, and I was the highest priced cake decorator in my local market. It was clear from how I marketed my business/product that it was a premium one, so my customers weren't the type to typically nickel-and-dime. But if one should try to haggle about price, I simply wouldn't do it, and I would let that customer go elsewhere. I spent a lot of time costing out my process steps and pricing my products, so I knew exactly where I needed to draw the line on price in order to maintain profitability. It's very important to have a strong understanding of your costs, if you want to have a sustainable business, as this knowledge also allows you to know when to let a bad (unprofitable) customer walk.

I get asked how much I charge for the kilo.

Next question: What is the estimated time you take to make each cookie you usually do for customers? And could you give me an estimate of how many cookies you do per hour? And now, what is the price in dollars you ask for each cookie? Regarding this, in your country how much do you pay a woman per hour to clean your house? Or, how much do you usually pay a nanny per hour to take care of your kids? With this, I am trying to make a comparison of cookie prices in various countries to the prices we have got over here.

I'm sitting this one out since I haven't sold in a while.

Others who are selling, what's your typical pricing for cookies? Does it vary by how long they take you to make them? If so, how?

Val - Unfortunately, that tactic doesn't always work. I sent cookies to Oprah when I had my shop . . .

A few times . . .

Never heard a peep; I think they have screeners who open all her mail. They certainly wouldn't give her food product to eat, but I hoped she would at least see them . . .

JULIA: you are amazing! Is there anything you have not already done in your life?

Evelin - LOL, I am pretty old, so there's been time to do a lot.

Any pricing comments from those selling? Val? 208Bakes?

Standard price is a euro for a 31/2 inch cookie. Mostly fondant. They are mostly pretty simple. That's a $1.20.

Val - I do agree. My clientele when I had my shop was mostly wedding clientele. So when I sold cookies it was as an add-on to a wedding cake; they were already paying a lot and so I could command premiums for cookies too. I also did a lot of dessert parties, where cookies were just one element of the whole deal.

Ladies. I love you but I have to leave. Julia you are a constant source of inspiration ! Thank you. Chat on and kisses to all.

Again, I think diversification is also key to a successful bakery business. It's hard to make money on cookies alone.

TINA: Bye-bye! Kisses ❤️

JULIA: I am sure she has not seen them! You are not old you are pretty and a volcano of ideas! Maybe this is not helpful but in Milan covered fondant cookies are sold for €3,00 but only shops can sell them. Private must have a special lisence!

Evelin - I am turning 55 in a month . . . I don't know how this age sneaked up on me?!

Val, get those prices up if you can. I am sure you are not covering your time!

Yes, Val, the chat transcript gets saved. Just return to this same link to see it. Or look under Chats, to the right side of the page for links to all past chats.

JULIA: I am 44 and you look younger than me! Go ahead on doing what you do, it works very well!

While Val is posting, I am moving onto another question in queue. We have 4 or 5 more that people teed up for us in advance.

208 and Raksmum: I think she's talking about laying edible paper (frosting sheets with pre-printed images) on cookies and then piping a border around them. This would be fast, but 12 would still take me more than an hour to do (including the baking) . . . I wouldn't survive on $24 for an hour of my time . . .

My thoughts on Viking Rose's questions coming up . . .

P.S. Evelin, just read your past comment. Thank you! But, I beg to differ, you definitely look younger than me!

VikingRose: Dry icing pops very easily off naked (uniced) cookies; also if the icing was too thick when piped, it can sometimes have more difficulty adhering to iced cookies. I'd try loosening your icing a bit. As for the dipping in the center as the icing dries, this is typical, especially if you are drying under humid conditions. If you place your cookies near a heat fan or in or near a food dehydrator, the icing will quick-set and most, if not all, of that dipping will be eliminated.

VIKINGROSE: I solved all these problems when I started using a warm air fan to dry icing!

Evelin, how close to the fan do you place your cookies?

Thanks for your participation, 208Bakes. And good luck with your decorating!

VIKINGROSE: Using a fan icing dries very glossy, quickly and flat, no bends in the middle, no air bubbles!

208BAKES Bye-bye ❤️

Posting some comments that came in before the chat went live. Not sure what to make of them, so just posting them for completeness.

Very close JULIA!

👋🏻

http://cookieconnection.juliau...age/true/Catrina.png

I asked Pip in private message what she wanted us to see or comment on in the attached link of Catrina cookies. Waiting to hear from her . . . in the meantime, back to Sil's questions . . .

So, sometimes we have little work, other times we get overloaded. My next question is: When you've gotten overloaded, have you ever worked with others? Or do you simply refuse the order and say "I am booked, I am sorry." Or perhaps you pass it over to another cookier? If you've worked with others, what was your experience? If not, if you just refuse the order, why do you do that and don't you think working with the cookier community is better?

Sil - Regarding your question about having too much work: When I had my bakery, I typically didn't refuse much work because the work was very seasonal (I did mostly wedding cakes) and I needed to grab all the business I could, whenever I could, to afford my shop and pay my core staff. But, I had the advantage of doing mostly weddings and big events that were planned well in advance, so I knew long before I got busy how busy I would be and exactly when. This allowed me to hire more part-time workers in advance of busy seasons, so that I didn't have to shoulder the extra work burden myself. Again, this is another reason why it's important to price the labor content into your work - if you want to grow and to be able to better handle the peaks and valleys in work demand, you will, at some point, need to hire others to help you out. And you need to have priced your products so that you can pay those employees a fair market rate. I only mention this, because I know many cookiers are not really charging for their time when I see the prices they are setting on their cookies. As such, they'll have a tough time growing and affording hired help unless they increase price.

RAKSMUM: yes, air must be wam, not hot or cold! You will see a huge difference on the surface of your cookies!

Val. How long do the cookie last?

Val: I think Manu is asking how long the cookies with frosting sheets last.

Any other thoughts about Sil's question? How do you manage large orders or taking on additional orders when you're maxed out?

Julia: yes

JULIA: what do you intend for frosting sheets? Fondant and icing topcoating?

Evelin: I don't cover cookies completely with frosting sheets, but Val does to speed up the process. I sometimes use them as stencils to airbrush over, and then remove them, or as small decorative elements.

Evelin: frosting sheets are thicker than wafer paper, and more opaque. They are usually made from tapioca starch with sugar, whereas wafer paper is often potato starch with no sugar. The two behave quite differently. Frosting sheets are more flexible to start, and more subject to humidity changes due to the added sugar.

JULIA: Are these sheets made of fondant?

Evelin: See my answer above; no, not fondant.

JULIA: Ok! Thank you for clarifying, I never used them, must try to!

Raksmum - Yes, you can. Many do, but I do not. I prefer to bake my cookies to order. I believe the flavor is always better.

But let me move onto some other questions. We still have quite a few in the queue, and I only can stay on this chat until 11:15.

Val: I know that many cookiers do that especially for large orders and the cookies are still great

Have you ever had a time you wanted to throw everything out and not continue any more? When and why? What happened afterwards? Why did you continue?

Sil - regarding your question about ever wanting to throw in the towel. Yes, this happens to me a lot. I work very intensely at everything I do, so it's easy for me to feel burned out, or to get bored. That's why I tend to change career direction every seven years or so!

Others?

BTW, CookieAkron, I see your question in the queue. Thanks! Just working through those that came in earlier. Will get to yours in a bit.

JULIA: We don’t beleive you! Ahahah!

Evelin - I have been a nuclear reactor systems engineer, a business consultant, a bakery owner, a writer, and now a cookie decorator/educator. I'm not sure what comes next, but I am pretty sure there will be another change in my future!

Julia: don't scare us!

Others on the issue of burn out? Do you get it? How do you manage it?

JULIA: You scare us, yes!

Evelin/Manu - Don't worry. Nothing is going to happen very soon. I am fully booked with classes, and fully committed to them, through the end of 2018!

Julia: the burn out is my biggest fear... this is probably the reason I keep cookies as a hobby

JULIA: This sounds great! So happy for you ❤️

Frankly, I'm experiencing it (burn out) right now, because I have taken on so many things to try to make ends meet, which gets back to Sil's earlier question about making a living on cookies. I haven't found any one thing (teaching or selling products or videos) that's enough to make it worth my while financially, so I am doing all of them in the hopes that they will add up to something bigger and more sustainable. But the workload (juggling all of this) is killing me right now . . .

Next question, another from Sil . . .

Classes. Who have been your best teachers and why? What are the things that make you choose a class or another? What is it that you look for in a class? What do you want to learn? Is there something you see isn't being covered in classes being taught? What was the best experience you have had in classes? Could you please share it with us? And, what was your worst experience taking a class?

Sil - regarding your question about classes, I'll sit this one out. Since I primarily teach classes and don't take them, I'm VERY interested in hearing others' responses here.

MANU: ....and why I post twice per month, ahahah! But new ideas always come and new projects always take life in the end!

Evelin - Yes, it's been hard for me to post new projects as often as I would like, as the support of the new product lines, this site, and also the turning of every project into a video takes a ton of time. Oops, I forgot the class prep too . . . so you see, something has to go/get streamlined . . .

Julia: Hope that the end of 2018 is not a deadline! I wish to take classes with you one day!!!

Manu: It's not a deadline, but I am thinking about tapering off on some activities in 2019 (probably not teaching), as I am overloaded and am having trouble tending to personal matters (like the house reno that's underway).

MANU: I teach classes but this question is perfect for you!

I am extending the chat a bit to get through the last three questions or so . . . but have to go by 11:30! I've got cookies for a video to decorate!

Evelindecora: Sometimes the more cookies I made the more ideas come, some other times I have stop to make cookies to get ideas coming...

Any more thoughts on what makes a good class? And not just thoughts about pricing? What about content and methods of instruction?

Val:

MANU: I understand, the same for me! Mostly, ideas come when you don’t have time to realize them into cookies!

As for my experience with classes, I have a model where I do none of the baking for them or any of the admin (taking of fees, etc.), as I prefer to focus on just the teaching aspect (making of demo projects) . . .

So, I look for host venues willing to pay my travel and teaching fees and to administer the class and do all the advance baking. They just pay me a flat fee per day, so they bear all of the risk, but also all of the upside from the class. I can teach anywhere from a few up to 30 or more people at a time, depending on the level of support (number of assistants) that the venue provides.

A last word from Sil, and then two more questions . . .

Thank you all so much! I hope my questions helped us out between ourselves. Thanks Julia for moderating and organizing this chat and all the chats you organize. Big, large applause Julia for all your endless work and big effort to build a cookie community - awesome! THANKS, EVERYBODY!

Yes, Sil (whenever you read this). Your questions were fantastic; they were key to keeping this chat moving. Thank you so much for participating beforehand!

I do everything with couplers and tips. I haven’t used tipless bags. I’d appreciate knowledge of where to purchase them and any pointers about using them. Thank you, Anne

I wish you had some classes being offered in the Dallas area.

Andrea R - I do too. Just no offers from interested venues there. If you know of one, please put us in touch.

Val - Yes, my venues often have to prep my cookies to this extent in advance, because they have to be dry enough to assemble in 3-D, and I often teach 3-D projects.

Paula - On my Facebook page under "Events" or on my personal site under "Classes". I have not announced the 2018 ones yet, but I will be in Mexico, New York/New Jersey, the Dominican Republic, Japan, Switzerland and Argentina, along with doing several US-based cookie and cake shows.

JULIA: me too! I only focus on decoration and techniques. My classes are not more than 8 people per group so I can take care of all of them personally.

Julia: The teacher makes a good class in my opinion. I am not a teacher but I have been a student. The prep work is not a joke and managing the class either. I have had Evelin and Marta as teachers and they really gave all to their students all the time.

SIL: Bye Sil! Hugs ❤️

Any thoughts on AnneL's question about tipless bags, a few posts up?

Hi, Annel! I use parchment cones for most of my piping, which work just like tipless bags except I make them out of biodegradable paper that I don't feel guilty about throwing out! Just fill them and cut the tip (straight across) to get the size of opening you want. I just googled "tipless pastry bags" and loads of options came up (https://www.google.com/search?...gs&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8). As with regular bags, you want to avoid any bags with side seams (flaps) as they'll interfere with the icing flowing evenly out of the tip.

Paula - Aww, thanks so much for the kind words, This community is very much a cooperative effort. I rely heavily on great contributors, like Manu, to keep it running.

Okay, if there is no more on tipless bags, then I am moving onto CookieAkron, who has been patiently waiting!

Julia: But I know everything about the prep work because you post a lot behind the scenes of your classes. Otherwise I wouldn't have realized that!

MANU: thank you Manu! I am so happy to hear you enjoyed my class. Hope one day to meet you again, maybe at a Julia’s 3D project class. I admire your tutorials very much maybe one day I’ll see you teaching too!!! ❤️

Evelin - Would love to take one of your classes on day soon!

Val, if you can: please post that info here in the next 6 minutes. The chat will automatically close at 11:30.

Cookieakron: I would order a custom stencil

CookieAkron: I would do what Manu said, for the speed of stencils. That would be much faster than projecting and piping, and I have found that icing can sometimes pop off frosting sheets over time.

JULIA: Such a honor to hear that, I really hope to hug you once again in any case!

COOKIEAKRON: I quote Manu! A custom stencil would be perfect!

Evelin: Would love to hug you again too! Lovely lady!

Okay, I think we've covered all I had in the queue. Unless you all had something else . . .

Let me know what you thought of this chat format, via PM, as chat is about to close. If it worked, I could do more of them.

Also, Val, if you can't post here in time, you can always post links in the comments under the chat transcript after it closes (I think we have comments under them). If not, send them to me and I can figure out how to post them so all see them.

JULIA: Thank you so much for this chat! A big hug to you, Manu and all the other sweet ladies! ❤️

Thanks to everyone here for your active participation and to Sil and others for posting so many great questions in advance!

Thank you!

Thanks, Val! You made it in the nick of time!